[Otto]

For the first time outside of the US, Volkswagen's emissions rigging has been observed in the group's vehicles. The Korean Environment Ministry confirmed Thursday hat VW had used a piece of software to manipulate emissions levels during testing. Following this discovery, the Korean government has mandated that VW recall over 120,000, all outfitted with the diesel engines in question.

The Environment Ministry found the defeat device while testing the Volkswagen Tiguan Euro 5 equipped with the EA189 engine. The device turned on an exhaust gas recirculation system during the indoor emissions testing to fake emissions levels. When tested outdoors, the system did not turn on and excessive emissions were not detected.

The ministry moved to suspend the sales of all vehicles outfitted with the EA189 engine immediately. That totals approximately 125,522 cars. It also penalized VW Group 14.1 billion won (~US$12.3 million).

The recalled models are: the VW Tiguan, VW Beetle, Audi Q6, Audi Q3, and Audi A4. This is the first time that the Audi Q3 has been implicated in the Dieselgate scandal.

Multiple lawsuits are now being filed against VW Group, and the Korean government has said it will scrutinize all diesel models and enhance its testing procedures.

Korea is far from home for me, but the fact that this scandal seems to continue to spread to new regions, engines and vehicles makes me wonder if it is simply inevitable that owners on our forum are eventually affected.

 

[PTI-Andy]

Hummm... As this unfolds it causes us all more concern. I was not too worried about it since Audi sales have not been affected and at first it was only diesel models. Since the news broke that now some gas models are affected (like the Q5) it hit a little closer to home.

I would still be surprised if the Q3 TFSI is affected. Keep in mind that the whole purpose of this cheat was to keep MPG figures up while complying with emissions laws (two opposing design goals). The Q3 does not have unrealistic MPG estimates and actually gets what you would expect from a car of this power and weight. Whereas the Q5's MPG rating is the same as the Q3 (yes, it has 8 speeds) but employs some cheating software so it sort of explains it. In other words, if the Q3 did employ a cheat then that means it would get worse millage when in compliance and that for me is hard to believe.

It's really a shame that the actions of some shady execs tarnishes all of this excellent engineering. Let's all keep our fingers crossed that this does not end up having a permanent effect and devaluing our cars.

-Andy

 

[doug]

I have not seen anything on problems with the gas engines, only the diesel. The Q5 offers both a gas and diesel 3.0L. I test drove the diesel and it was an amazing drive.

 

[PTI-Andy]

I have not seen anything on problems with the gas engines, only the diesel. The Q5 offers both a gas and diesel 3.0L. I test drove the diesel and it was an amazing drive.

It was released by VAG not long ago that gas engines also are added to the list falsifying CO2 figues. Among them are some Audi models including the Q5. I think there was a link on this forum somewhere. Here are a few link related:


http://www.inautonews.com/vw-found-430000-new-models-with-implausible-c02-figures

http://europe.autonews.com/article/...o2-deception-spreads-to-more-gasoline-engines

 

[rnlabas]

Me thinks that how the basis of this debacle unfolds, it will hit EVERY engine in EVERY manufacturer's lines. The simple truth is that A) the law as written BY the makers FOR the makers, states that the systems will work "under testing" - which they typically DO; B) the law cannot possibly be extended to include EVERY possible driving scenario because infinity would be impossible to simulate under ANY test. So, the law while intending one thing can only ever be used to merely simulate or emulate everything. THAT simulation or emulation IS the very test that the law was made to follow.

Along with this, will be EVERYbody's opinions as to what the best way there is or could be to get what ANYbody else wants, but it will ALWAYS be a compromise to SOMEbody. So, a NEW test will be developed to TEST what MOSTbody agrees to represent ANYbody's wishes so that EVERYbody is happy, and NObody complains about the makers or the cars... whew !! Hope it happens soon - I'm on my last nerve with just trying to keep up.

Lastly, don't think for a minute that VW is the only one doing this - EVERYbody is - they were just the first to get busted and the first to admit it. There's no high horse or high road for this. EVERYbody else is just laying in wait to see how bad VW gets slammed - you would too.

 

[rnlabas]

Oh, and TDIs in the Q3 have been around since the 2011 introduction ... almost 58% of the entire Q3 production to date is a TDI -

 

[boblepp]

..snip...Lastly, don't think for a minute that VW is the only one doing this - EVERYbody is - they were just the first to get busted ...snip

I am intrigued, how can you say with such certainty that all of them are cheating? I am not doubting you so much as wondering that if YOU know that now... what is keeping them from being checked right now? Did you know this BEFORE VW got caught?

When the others get caught, the effect on consumers will be enormous. Imagine not being able to trust a car salesperson...

 

[rnlabas]

I am intrigued, how can you say with such certainty that all of them are cheating? I am not doubting you so much as wondering that if YOU know that now... what is keeping them from being checked right now? Did you know this BEFORE VW got caught?

When the others get caught, the effect on consumers will be enormous. Imagine not being able to trust a car salesperson...

It's SO simple - read the law. It merely states that the metrics must be met under testing - NOTHING else. IMPLIED is NOT required. SPIRIT is NOT actual. If ANY maker can get away with it, they ALL will do it - if only because they CAN. There WILL be a variety of responses - and many are ALREADY under scrutiny NOW.

Legally it will be hard to define "cheating" here, as VW DID do exactly as the LAW permitted - regardless the implications or spirit of what they did. A moral judgement notwithstanding, it's really just the LAW that they can be held legally accountable for. Morally, we can all bemoan the reality of it - and do so with purchase decisions etc. and this WILL happen - and it WILL hurt them, VW and others too.

But THAT doesn't change the LAW, and hardly any amount of revisions to the LAW will really help, cuz as we try to cover an infinite control volume of vehicle operations for emissions satisfaction and compliance, the ONLY winners will be ZEVs - get ready then ...

 

[rnlabas]

oh, and just about EVERYBODY in the business (including the EPA) knew about it - they KNOW what the law states and they KNEW how makers were meeting it -

 

[PTI-Andy]

It's well known that many auto makes have "cheated" in the past. GM had cheated on over 800,000 Cadillacs when they would not pass emissions with the AC on. What typically happens is that the auto mfg will create a "work around" for areas that don't pass, so the cheat goes in effect as a fix rather than a design goal.

What VAG did was take it a step further in that they used the cheat as a marketing point for "green" cars to compete against hybrids and such. So in reality what they did is nothing new, but they took it much further than anyone else has (that we know of).

-Andy

 

[rnlabas]

... and even while doing what you said - they STILL met the LAW (as it is/was written) - perhaps folks should be jacked about THAT, more than the fact that VW took crafty (and morally suspect) advantage of that law...

 

[PTI-Andy]

... and even while doing what you said - they STILL met the LAW (as it is/was written) - perhaps folks should be jacked about THAT, more than the fact that VW took crafty (and morally suspect) advantage of that law...

That's a very good point! I couldn't agree more. I think VAG will pay dearly for what has become common practice in the industry just because they were more blatant about it and then got sensationalized through the media.

-Andy

 

[Otto]

But the fact that it has been done in the past doesn't make it any more OK. The flagrant lying, saying its clean when it is the opposite, is really putting salt in the wound though.

 

[PTI-Andy]

But the fact that it has been done in the past doesn't make it any more OK. The flagrant lying, saying its clean when it is the opposite, is really putting salt in the wound though.

Oh, don't get me wrong... it's morally reprehensible. The fact that they used these "cheats" as a marketing tool to scam environmentally conscious customers takes it to a new level.

I think the point is that there is an implication that VAG is alone in this because it is really the only case being reported by the media because it is so blatant. I think the whole industry and the methods should be brought to light.

-Andy

 

[MPBQ3]

Man, I an so freakin happy that I traded in my 09 Jetta TDI for a 2012 Chevy Cruze...so before you say anything about the Cruze, great car with zero problems at 67,000 miles and 38mpg.