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Discussion Starter #1
So when Audi decided that the Q3 was going to come to America they made another decision simultaneously. Kill the A3 hatch. Indeed, not only is Audi able to sell the Q3 for more dollars, it also hands Audi a convenient little kickback, light truck definition and subsequent CAFE loopholes...

One of the odder side-effects of the old fuel-economy standards for vehicles, first introduced in 1975, is that they ushered in an era of bigger, heavier automobiles in the United States. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards had two sets of rules — one for cars and a looser one for light trucks. Automakers quickly realized that they could build more SUVs and light trucks (as well as cars designed to meet light-truck standards, like the Subaru Outback) in order to sidestep the rules.
So there you have it, if you wanted to know why we're getting SUV everything rammed down our throats...

Although the gas-guzzler tax has a simple purpose - to encourage the production of more efficient cars - the reality of its implementation is different. The tax does, indeed, apply to the most inefficient passenger care, mostly luxury sedans like Rolls-Royce's and Ford Crown Victories as well as high-performance sports cars like Jaguars and Ferraris. However, the federal gas-guzzler tax does not apply to the majority of the gas-guzzling vehicles being sold today: light-duty trucks like pickups and SUV's. When the tax was enacted, light trucks constituted only about 25 percent of new vehicle sales. Congress exempted this class] of vehicles to spare farmers and construction businesses. However, sales of SUVs and pickup trucks have grown rapidly, and now light trucks and SUV's make up about 50 percent of new vehicle purchases. These light trucks directly compete with passenger cars in the consumer market.

As SUVs and other light truck sales have grown in recent years, automakers have reaped huge profits. SUVs, minivans, and high-end pickups are being marketed to the broader consumer market as everyday passenger vehicles. vehicles once predominately used 20 haul cools and lumber are now more often used to haul kids and laptop computers. Auto industry analysts estimate that the profit margins on SUVs can range From $ 16,000 to $17,000 per vehicle...Much of this profit can be attributed to the light truck exemption from the gas-guzzler tax.
just remember, your government loves you. Upset yet?
 

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So, are these loopholes going to be closed any time soon? With the state of congress I am guessing not. This does shed some light on what is happening with all the CUVs around though. Does that mean that auto makers are making more money off these SUVs or does it mean that auto makers pass the savings on to the customer?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
So, are these loopholes going to be closed any time soon? With the state of congress I am guessing not. This does shed some light on what is happening with all the CUVs around though. Does that mean that auto makers are making more money off these SUVs or does it mean that auto makers pass the savings on to the customer?
savings? You're not saving anything, you're being bled surreptitiously.

A3: £18,900
Q3: £23,870

The loop holes mean they don't need to focus on fuel efficiency while simultaneously gaming an extra couple grand out of every transaction.

playing the Cafe game. something all auto manufacturers have to do unfortunately
Actually, they're not playing at all...
 

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I think if they weren't playing they would all just stick to V8s and V6s

Why do you think we are moving to turbo 4s and turbo 6s

now even turbo 3 cylinders.. hybrids. electric cars.
 

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only way they can keep up and stick around in the industry is to produce those numbers and even better to better themselves and level up from the competition
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I think if they weren't playing they would all just stick to V8s and V6s

Why do you think we are moving to turbo 4s and turbo 6s

now even turbo 3 cylinders.. hybrids. electric cars.
no the car buying public wouldnt support it. even if light trucks are exempt from CAFE regs people still have to fill them with gas.
 

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Yeah it's more to make cars that are much more fuel efficient to make filling up at the gas station easier on people's wallets.
 

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no the car buying public wouldnt support it. even if light trucks are exempt from CAFE regs people still have to fill them with gas.
I'm not entirely sure.

Its a hard battle between performance and gas savings.

If you aim for gas efficiency it is hard to get good reliable performance

That is my opinion at least

You can't replace the reliability and power of a standard V6 and V8 with a turbo 4 and turbo 6.

Having the insane emissions laws for exhaust and intake systems dont help either. And that is stuff that most buyers probably don't care about as much.
 

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It's going to be a battle, i've seen how car makers get more power and MPG's out of engines from the past but that was with retuning of the ECU and some others, not sure if it will still be that easy now
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm not entirely sure.

Its a hard battle between performance and gas savings.

If you aim for gas efficiency it is hard to get good reliable performance

That is my opinion at least

You can't replace the reliability and power of a standard V6 and V8 with a turbo 4 and turbo 6.

Having the insane emissions laws for exhaust and intake systems dont help either. And that is stuff that most buyers probably don't care about as much.
i think for 95% of the car buying public its about minimizing costs. Consumers would dictate the downsizing of engines regardless.
 

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I guess im the 5%

When I buy a car I want to know it will be reliable and last long

YOu get what you pay for

Be cheap for pricing and you will get a crappy car that will break down on the way home from the dealer lot
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I guess im the 5%

When I buy a car I want to know it will be reliable and last long

YOu get what you pay for

Be cheap for pricing and you will get a crappy car that will break down on the way home from the dealer lot
I think you've completely missed the point of what I was saying. I'm saying manufacturers dont need to be regulated to create more fuel efficient engines, the consumers will dictate the shift with where they spend their dollars.

When i said the consumer aims to minimize costs, i meant cost of ownership, more specifically how much does it cost to actually drive the vehicle. Consumers strive for the lowest possible input costs, i.e the lowest possible fuel inputs..

they would have to downsize by themselves is all im saying.
 

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well there does seem to be alot of regulation and cars are getting smaller and more fuel efficient

so i guess that means people want to buy cars that are purely based on fuel efficiency?
 

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Fuel efficiency is key, but i wouldn't say it's the main thing. it's also about how versatile it is to them and many more
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Yes but versatility and use are subjective metrics. Fuel input costs are hard fact for everyone unless you own a refinery. Once a shopper has determined his or her basic use cases the next step is sifting out the competitors based on cost of ownership.

Again the market would of dictated a downsizing based on the consumers seeking to reduce ownership costs.
 

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I guess
Gas efficiency is important to me but personally I value quality and performance first.
That is how I pick cars. If the mileage happens to be poor then so be it.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I guess
Gas efficiency is important to me but personally I value quality and performance first.
That is how I pick cars. If the mileage happens to be poor then so be it.
es but will you purposely choose a vehicle with poor fuel economy? I get that if it turns out to be poor after purchase ok theres not much to be done. But would you not actively seek to minimize your costs as much as possible?
 

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I am probably alone on this but no I don't care too much about gas economy.

It comes with the type of car I am buying

if I'm looking for a performance car - I expect mileage to be poor

If I am looking for a family car - mileage will likely be not as bad as a performance car.

If I am looking for a diesel - it will probably have great mileage

I don't pick cars within a segment based on fuel efficiency no. If I decide I want a compact SUV for my family. My priorities are price, reliability, performance, interior quality, styling. And I pick the one I want. And I'll glance at the mileage and just nod.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I am probably alone on this but no I don't care too much about gas economy.

It comes with the type of car I am buying

if I'm looking for a performance car - I expect mileage to be poor

If I am looking for a family car - mileage will likely be not as bad as a performance car.

If I am looking for a diesel - it will probably have great mileage

I don't pick cars within a segment based on fuel efficiency no. If I decide I want a compact SUV for my family. My priorities are price, reliability, performance, interior quality, styling. And I pick the one I want. And I'll glance at the mileage and just nod.
understood, but my question still stands. Do you actively seek out the worst possible fuel efficiency...

if you're looking for a performance car, would you automatically go for the single digit MPG?

In a family sedan would you seek out the lowest possible MPG...

See you list price as your number one priority but don't consider fuel cost? Too me that makes little sence because fuel inputs dictate the "price" of the car over its lifetime... Unless you are a person who seeks to spend the maximum amount of money?
 
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