[MPBQ3]

Looking to add some HP.

http://www.goapr.com/products/?vehicle=Q3

 

[rnlabas]

I know these guys well, they have a strong reputation and I'll be checking with them when I feel the need ...>

 

[Otto]

I'd be very interested to hear people's first hand opinions on products like these. I can never tell if the companies are legit or not. And it is also hard to know exactly what these parts will do to your performance.

 

[Quatto]

I'd be very interested to hear people's first hand opinions on products like these. I can never tell if the companies are legit or not. And it is also hard to know exactly what these parts will do to your performance.

that's why i like patiently waiting it out to see what happens

 

[jtechico]

My previous car was a 300hp STI so the 200hp Q3 is a little disappointing on the engine side. I'm headed down a similar path of possibly getting a tuning chip and wondered if anyone has had any experience with the racechip products?

Seems fairly simple and straight-forward.

 

[Otto]

The other thing that concerns me about these tuning chips is warranty and insurance. If you go modding your car with a new ECU chip, will your warranty and insurance still be valid?

 

[JohnJ]

Good question Otto. From what I have gathered from the LIMITED research I've done so far, the answer is Yes and No depending on whether the tuning did or did not cause a problem that would have been covered under warranty. Now, the question is who decides?

My dealership does APR modifications. If I decide to consider modifications, I will definitely begin my quest with them. In the meantime, I need to take delivery and live with the vehicle a while.

 

[Quatto]

Good question Otto. From what I have gathered from the LIMITED research I've done so far, the answer is Yes and No depending on whether the tuning did or did not cause a problem that would have been covered under warranty. Now, the question is who decides?

My dealership does APR modifications. If I decide to consider modifications, I will definitely begin my quest with them. In the meantime, I need to take delivery and live with the vehicle a while.

living with the vehicle for a while as it is from the factory is a great move and one to stick to for a while, too many people just jump right into doing mods without getting a good feel for the vehicle every step of the way.

 

[Ridgeback]

TD1 code!!!

Greetings from a new Q3 owner and forum member.

Here's a quote on this topic from Vortex:

"Be careful out there if you have any VW/Audi under warranty. VW/Audi as now implemented a automatic warranty flagging system called "TD1". ANY car that is brought into service will be automatically scanned and if there is ANY modifications/chip/performance software your info is sent to Audis main server and your car will be flagged 'TD1" meaning modified ECU/suspension/shifter/exhaust."

They can use this as a basis for denying any warranty on power train!!!

I had an A3 hatch before my Q3 and I had the APR "chip" (and yes they are awesome). At that time the dealership was willing to look the other way with regard to the mod. When I bought my Q3 I specifically asked the service manager about the TD1 code and he said that now any chipping is a big red flag / no-no for Audi. Mine is a lease so I'm obligated to take it to the dealership for service. If you take yours to an independent service place, they might be more willing to purposefully NOT scan for TD1. But if you car develops a drivetrain issue, they probably will have no choice but to scan for TD1 however and then you are probably sunk.

 

[rnlabas]

Welcome to the forum and thanks for this post - the TD1 scan and flag has been coded into Audi ECUs for about 3 years now - some aftermarket tuners (including APR) claim that their mods "leave no tracks" or can reset the flag so it looks like their mods do NOT throw a TD1 code. Unfortunately this is NOT something easy for us, after-the-fact to check. As far as I know, even VCDS does not scan for or find this flag.

btw, here's the first Audi official note on the subject :
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...due-to-flash?p=7371880&viewfull=1#post7371880

btw, I am SURE my S5 would have a TD1 if it could (but it's a 2009), but Audi and my dealer still treat me pretty well and cover other stuff that has nothing to do with the S/C or tune ...

 

[Otto]

Yea I think it is a good idea to get to know the car and properly break it in before you go changing things around. Kinda like when you go to a restaurant, it is a good idea to try the food before you start changing it yourself with salt and pepper.

 

[Ridgeback]

Yea I think it is a good idea to get to know the car and properly break it in before you go changing things around. Kinda like when you go to a restaurant, it is a good idea to try the food before you start changing it yourself with salt and pepper.

Especially if the chef throws you out of the restaurant for putting a little hot sauce on the dish.

 

[jtechico]

Thanks for the information.

The documentation seems to indicate that dealer diagnostic equipment will scan for mods at the time of scan (presumably at the shop)

but doesn't indicate that the dealer diagnostic equipment will pick up any mods that were added at any time previous to the time of scan but no longer present at the time of scan.

Assuming the car diagnostic equipment is not sophisticated enough to detect nor record any ECM mods during normal operation (not even sure how it would tell the difference between an ECM mod vs. any other DTC), if the mods were removed and the car was back in stock when you bring your car in for service, I get the impression that the TD1 code would not appear.

 

[rnlabas]

From what I understand, the TD1 flag can be set by the ECU whenever a revision to its code or checksum error is found (if a piggy back box is in line). Then when scanned by Audi VAS the flags are sent to Audi. This means that even if the car is normal at the time of scanning, the flag will have been already set by modifications or piggy back devices, even if no longer present.

What some tuners claim is that their code or device either does not set a TD1 flag, or it can reset it on demand or automagically if it does... Hard to know unless you can check the TD1 status yourself and/or clearing it BEFORE sending it to Audi...

 

[jtechico]

how can the ecu differentiate between a checksum error and a dtc?

 

[rnlabas]

how can the ecu differentiate between a checksum error and a dtc?

A DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) is an error relative to the status of system checks - essentially what is reported from measured values against either an expected (appropriate) range or set value - empirical metrics. The checksum error is a comparison of software code for a given program or routine for either the measuring as referenced above or the instructions related to those measurements.

The former (DTC) is for when things don't happen as they should based on the correct programs running (measurements and instructions), and the latter (checksums) are for when the programs don't seem to be the correct ones for doing the measurement and instructions (as in a revised engine management routine or a piggy-back controller).

Sometimes a DTC will be a result of a checksum error - but as in the case of the TD1 flag, THAT checksum error is stored and reported elsewhere...

 

[rnlabas]

Think of either a DTC or a checksum error as a max (or min) value flag. Even if the current value is not at the maximum or minimum, the record of that value being there once is still stored. Whether the flag is a DTC (normal operation related) for correct programming, or a checksum error for incorrect programming (at some point perhaps NOT currently), the flags can remain long after the condition does not...

I suppose you could imagine checksum errors as a subset of all DTCs - but for the purposes of this discussion - outside expected values or performance for correct programming and simply incorrect programming, I think (and Audi too) they are differentiated. For example VCDS does NOT look for programming checksums - it is focused on expected values or performance with CORRECT programming. It doesn't know how the metrics got there, it just knows they're in the expected ranges/values.

Let's say your incorrect programming for your revised ECU or piggy-back controller provides expected metrics, then there will be NO DTCs - all is cool. And if you just have a few extra horsepower/pound-feet but the mixture's fine (and a host of other stuff too, btw) - those values WILL be in the expected ranges (I suppose until Audi decides to look at power/torque as a metric) -

 

[kniteshift]

The other thing that concerns me about these tuning chips is warranty and insurance. If you go modding your car with a new ECU chip, will your warranty and insurance still be valid?

I used to have the APR ecu tuning on my VW GTI. I even went as far as to get a new downpipe. As far as warranty is concerned, it really depends on the situation. Say your engine craps out... in order for VW to void your warranty they must be able to prove that the error is caused by the mod or tune. In most cases, it's easy for them to make that claim, but it's hard to prove. Most of the people on the MK6 forums did not have any problems, but if no one persisted to bad luck, it was easily disputed that it was a manufacturer defect vs damage done from the tune.

Hope that helps.

 

[AMILL]

Does this mean that anytime I have to bring it into the dealer for a warranty problem and they scan my car AFTER the coding has been done it'll erase all the coding and reset it back to default settings?

Is there any way around that other than trying to talk to the service dept and see if they won't scan? Otherwise if you're having a warranty problem that needs to be scanned then your SOL?

 

[rnlabas]

Does this mean that anytime I have to bring it into the dealer for a warranty problem and they scan my car AFTER the coding has been done it'll erase all the coding and reset it back to default settings?

Is there any way around that other than trying to talk to the service dept and see if they won't scan? Otherwise if you're having a warranty problem that needs to be scanned then your SOL?

That indeed CAN happen. However, most aftermarket tunes, are programmed to recode - but not all. This is also true of any coding mods you've made for anything else. It's the easiest for Audi to just recode your entire car based on their latest programming. You DO have to discuss with your tech anything like this you don't want automagically overwritten. They CAN do individual controller coding, but they usually don't like to. It's just easier to blast the whole car. Remember they work on an hourly basis, get paid for a flat-rate basis, but can usually beat the tar out of it.

Think of it this way : they get an hour to recode your car - they can do the job in 15 minutes, so they still get paid the hour. If you have them individually code controllers it might really take them an hour - lucky you, but unlucky them. They make more money by charging book rates for X hours but only having to really work 50-75% of X. When you do this kind of thing, be VERY nice to your cooperative tech - he's working for you at perhaps some financial loss to himself.