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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey there,

I just had my first encounter with the service department on the weekend. It was for the winter tire placement. I am a bit irked, but not sure if I should be.

Here are the facts:

  • Appointment was set for 9:45am, did not come out till 11:30am
  • Purchased winter package - Pirelli Sotto Zero Serie II 210 - 215/60/R17/96H
  • New rims had sticky substances all around them.
  • Front Passenger tire had weights on top of each other, and not stuck flush, a bit of it sticking out. (see attached image)
  • Tire pressures (measured underground at around 15C/59F) were varying from 30-38 psi unevenly.
  • Contacted dealer service department regarding proper tire pressure for winter tires, was advised to use B Pillar Sticker which had 46/44psi which was meant for the 255/35 R20 Tires. The specs for the tire itself notes a maximum of 44 psi.

And I still don't know how much psi to put into the winter tires.

What do you guys think?



 

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Did the wheels clean up to your liking?
Were the weights tossed on or is that the proper area for them.
I'm not sure about the tires...you can contact the manufacturer.
The weights and cleanliness of the wheels would bug me. I would be irked also...and sadly they don't give a rats behind. If you are not satisfied be sure to "rate" them accordingly if you get a survey. Or simply contact corporate and state your case. My expectations would be a SHOWROOM delivery on the wheels.
Clean and looking real good.

And for the appointment....I had tires put on a car once. Waited for them. They said it takes a lot of time blah blah...after 2 hours nothing was done...I said bring my car back I have to leave...they said to wait... it was done in a 1/2 hour. All they had to say is they are busy it'll take a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I declined the car cleaning itself as I prefer to clean my own cars. The wheels i figured would be at least clean after mounting and install.

The weights are placed in the outer part of the rim. I have no problems with that. It seems a bit sloppy how they stacked 2 sets onto each other. The top layer not even stuck on correctly.

Basically, before I make some noise, I am trying to figure out whether this is a one off or an indicator that I should get my vehicle serviced at another Audi Dealer.

When summer comes, I fully intend on keeping my tires and swapping them myself.
 

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I would definitely be irked. I would also go back there and tell them to re-balance them with the weights behind the spokes, make sure the right air pressure is set on all of them.

I would go to another dealer as they seem like tools to be honest.
 

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Hey there,

I just had my first encounter with the service department on the weekend. It was for the winter tire placement. I am a bit irked, but not sure if I should be.

Here are the facts:

  • Appointment was set for 9:45am, did not come out till 11:30am
  • Purchased winter package - Pirelli Sotto Zero Serie II 210 - 215/60/R17/96H
  • New rims had sticky substances all around them.
  • Front Passenger tire had weights on top of each other, and not stuck flush, a bit of it sticking out. (see attached image)
  • Tire pressures (measured underground at around 15C/59F) were varying from 30-38 psi unevenly.
  • Contacted dealer service department regarding proper tire pressure for winter tires, was advised to use B Pillar Sticker which had 46/44psi which was meant for the 255/35 R20 Tires. The specs for the tire itself notes a maximum of 44 psi.

And I still don't know how much psi to put into the winter tires.

What do you guys think?
Let me comment on each of your points and some of the others that have chimed in. Just my two cents ...

They shouldn't have been that late, and at least given you the courtesy of a call advising you of their tardiness - especially if over 20 min or so -

The Winter Tire package seems sized correctly for the car (total OD within 5%), but in which case the book takes precedent over the door sticker as to pressures, since they (pressures) vary with tire size: in this case where the size tire you have is NOT in the book, you should be given a supplemental label SPECIFICALLY for that package that you've purchased. WITHOUT such a label, an APPROXIMATE change in recommended pressure can be calculated as a variable compared to the change in TIRE VOLUME between the two tire and wheel combinations. Note that this should be done ONLY when the tires have similar or same load ratings and maximum allowable inflation pressures to start with - as these are BOTH variables that affect differential pressures.

Your new rims should have cleaned well of "sticky substances" to start with.

While weights on top of weights are not attractive, they do work to best balance the tire/wheel - another poster mentioned that you should've had them place the weights behind the spokes - this is NOT possible to do when balancing as weights go where they NEED to go, not just for looks - if that were true, just leave them completely off - The balancer CAN place them in less obvious places or combine/change/move them SOMEWHAT, but if that leads to adding more weights all over, THAT's NOT good either.

Sounds like they did NOT know what pressures to use at all so either winged it or didn't bother to check anything - a DUD!

Just using the sticker for tire/wheel sizes NOT listed is as bad or even worse than not caring at all -

So - back to recommended pressures for a minute : 96H and 97H load ratings are pretty close - at least enough to range pressures.

Original Total OD (in.) = 255*0.35*2/25.4 +20 = 27.03"
Original Total OD Volume = pi*27.03^2/4*255/25.4 = 5760 in3
Original Wheel Volume = pi*20^2/4*9 = 2827 in3
Original Tire Volume = 5760-2827 = 2933 in3

New Total OD (in.) = 215*0.6*2/25.4 + 17 = 27.16"
New Total OD Volume = pi*27.16^2/4*215/25.4 = 4904 in3
New Total Wheel Volume = pi*17^2/4*7.5 = 1702 in3
New Tire Volume = 4904-1702 = 3201 in3

For load ratings the same or similar : P1V1 = P0V0 or P1 = P0V0/V1

V0=2933 in3 P0=44 psi V1=3201 in3

P1 = P0V0/V1 so : P1 = 44*2933/3201 = 40 psi ***

***Provided the Max Inflation pressures are ALSO the same - if not then that needs to be factored into the above number such that :
P0/P0Max ~ P1/P1Max or P1/P0 ~ P1Max/P0Max

So, let's say P0Max = 48 psi and P1Max = 44 psi >> then P1 should be factored by P1Max/P0Max or : 44/48*40 = New P1 = 37 psi

JUST A GUIDE - Drive to FEEL and adjust accordingly - GET SUPPLEMENTAL LABEL FIRST
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@RNLABAS:

That is amazing, thanks for doing the math there. And thank you for reinforcing what I thought. I expect more from Audi. I sent an email to corporate about this situation. As for my psi setting, i've set all of them to 37 psi =) Feels good so far.

@Klassic: Confidence is shaken, will find another Audi Service Department

@Monsoon
This is what I sent Audi Corporate:

Hello,

I am writing to you guys today to let you know of my disappointment with my first Audi service experience. On the 19th of November, I came in for a scheduled appointment at 9:45 am to swap out my summer tires for a new winter set.

The total appointment took ~1.5 Hours, which is on the high end of the spectrum seeing as I declined the car wash as it was raining and I prefer to wash my own vehicle. I can ignore the time it took to swap the tires but the quality in which the tires were delivered was very lacklustre. The rims looked all scuffed up initially but was really just full of sticky gunk. The balancing weights on the front passenger side was set on the outer rim with 2 sets of weights stacked on top of each other and not even correctly as the top layer isn't stuck on completely.

The drive home after the tire swap revealed that the vehicle was steering more towards the right side. I checked(cold after several hours) the tire pressures and it revealed a mismatch of tire pressures ranging from 30-39 psi. I called the dealership and requested the psi recommendation for the winter tire set. I was told to follow the B-Pillar Sticker, which states a tire pressure of 46 psi rear and 44psi front. The maximum tire manufacturer specification is at 44 psi. I had to call in again and was given a general 38-39psi recommendation.

Some facts about my vehicle
2017 Audi Q3 TFSI 2.0L Quattro Progressiv S-Line
Leased this September 22, 2016 @ Audi Midtown Toronto
20" 5 arm Summer Wheels with Pirelli P-Zeros
17" Standard Q3 Winter Package with Pirelli Sotto Zero Serie 2
Thanks,
 

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by the way ... I checked the actual Load Ratings also to see if it could/would/should affect the outcome and while small, it does add another pound to the new P1.

Original Load INDEX = 97 =>> Rating = 1609 lbs.

New Load INDEX = 96 =>> Rating = 1565 lbs.

So new P1 would need to be modified also by the ratio of 1609/1565*P1 (or 37 psi) = 38 psi
 

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Behind the spoke balancing is actually quite common. The newer machines have them as features and they typically don't require a noticeable amount of more weight, if any (depending on how many are needed in the first place). There's nothing worse than a beautiful wheel with wheel weights sticking out of the openings like sore thumbs. Understandably, if this was just throwing them around willy nilly, that would be stupid. But if the machine is capable of doing it, I'm all for it.

But nonetheless, that was perfectly written !
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks everyone,

Audi Canada got in touch with me. As per usual they didn't read the email and just regurgitated that higher PSI is okay to do. At that point I let them have it, even included details on how they wanted to charge me again for the tires and all I wanted was an itemized receipt so I could get Pirelli rebates and send to my insurance proof of winter tires. The agent said he will get in touch with the dealership and call me back within 24 hours.

The Q3 and the Audi brand specialist pushed me to move from buying Mercs to Audis. The service department at Mercedes has always gone above and beyond for my cars and I expected no less from Audi.
 

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Thanks everyone,

Audi Canada got in touch with me. As per usual they didn't read the email and just regurgitated that higher PSI is okay to do. At that point I let them have it, even included details on how they wanted to charge me again for the tires and all I wanted was an itemized receipt so I could get Pirelli rebates and send to my insurance proof of winter tires. The agent said he will get in touch with the dealership and call me back within 24 hours.

The Q3 and the Audi brand specialist pushed me to move from buying Mercs to Audis. The service department at Mercedes has always gone above and beyond for my cars and I expected no less from Audi.
...and you shouldn't have. Audi now enjoys the HIGHEST service rating of luxury brands and THAT should be the focus of your dealer. ASK to rate them on their CSI - (if they suspect you might give them a perfect rating, they MAY try to ignore your request -INSIST). Let their Sales/Service Area manager get wind of an unhappy customer and see what happens...
 

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I don't know if you're still having issues, but I too have that winter tire package. Haven't encountered terrible snow conditions so can't speak to extreme conditions. However, in general, they ride and handle nicely, and go in the snow. I found the tire pressure info on line. Attached is a copy. I'm running mine at 35 psi front and back. I've only carried one other person and minimal luggage.

None of my wheels have unusual balancing weights, two or three on the spoke side and one inboard. I don't know the value of the individual weights. Yours just don't seem right. You were kept waiting, the wheels weren't properly preped, pressure wasn't consistent. Did you get things resolved?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I don't know if you're still having issues, but I too have that winter tire package. Haven't encountered terrible snow conditions so can't speak to extreme conditions. However, in general, they ride and handle nicely, and go in the snow. I found the tire pressure info on line. Attached is a copy. I'm running mine at 35 psi front and back. I've only carried one other person and minimal luggage.

None of my wheels have unusual balancing weights, two or three on the spoke side and one inboard. I don't know the value of the individual weights. Yours just don't seem right. You were kept waiting, the wheels weren't properly preped, pressure wasn't consistent. Did you get things resolved?
Hey thanks, just saw this. It was never resolved. More along the lines of ignored by Audi after my polite messages.

=(
 

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Does the Q3 require winter tires? I have one on order, and live in Colorado. (Mine will have the 19's on it).

I was planning on swapping out the ContiProContacts for some better all seasons, but was hoping I wouldn't need winter tires/wheels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Does the Q3 require winter tires? I have one on order, and live in Colorado. (Mine will have the 19's on it).

I was planning on swapping out the ContiProContacts for some better all seasons, but was hoping I wouldn't need winter tires/wheels.
Winter tires in a northern climate is always better. Quattro can only do so much, the main advantage in the winter will always be winter rubber.

I'd rather have a set of tires that are optimal for warm and optimal for cold versus "okay" performance all around.
 
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